Forum:2007-04-16. Giving Miriam the benefit of the doubt, by Mokichan 8000
Mokichan_8000, 4/16/2007 4:45 AM :...this came up in the previous fanfics topic, and I thought that I might throw this out to all of you in the HA! fandom... Why is Miriam as an alcoholic regarded as common knowledge? That's something I never really understood - I mean, it's never addressed explicitly in the show; hell, the closest case where I can even think of it being IMPLIED is "Road Trip". I've always just viewed her as just a lazy, ditzy, scatterbrained wife, but I obviously must've missed some major crucial clues. Is this privileged information? Did Craig Bartlett actually divulge this in a chat that I may have missed? Help me out here, people! ---- GräfinZahl, 4/16/2007 11:57 AM :>Did Craig Bartlett actually divulge this in a chat that I >may have missed? Yep, he did. Here's what he said in the chat last year: : I have a question... did having helga's mom as an alcoholic cause any trouble when making the show? CraigBartlett : Miriam the alcoholic? CraigBartlett : actually, it was like the 500 pound gorilla that no one talked about. CraigBartlett : it was don't ask, don't tell. CraigBartlett : an inside joke for us. CraigBartlett : the sound guys put the sound of ice cubes clinking in her coffee cup. CraigBartlett : coffee with vodka? CraigBartlett : gin? : Woah what? CraigBartlett : yeah, in the Patakis, she's twelve-stepping. CraigBartlett : in recovery. CraigBartlett : not exactly nickat nite material.. ---- Mokichan_8000, 4/16/2007 12:13 PM :Ah, okay. I thought so. Thanks for clearing that up, Graf. ---- Bellethetrickster, 4/19/2007 4:20 AM :Haha, it's funny, but I never really thought about it until Craig flat-out said it. But in retrospect, there are tons of clues hinting toward it. Particularly all those times Miriam falls asleep in places that are not her own bedroom. *recalls one time where she fell asleep either on the couch, or behind the couch* And I guess that one time Helga talked about Miriam packing her lunch. I'm not sure which was worse... the fact that Miriam misplaced the non-heated lunch, putting it in the oven, the fact she packed it with shaving cream, or the fact that she'd meant to pack it with a spray can of cheese, as if that were nutritionally proper for a growing child's meal. But in any case, she'd have to be drunk to do that. ---- ioxmo, 4/22/2007 10:11 PM :Yeah, there were a lot of hints 'n' clues. I was the one who asked him that question in the chat, actually. One big clue/hint I remember is the episode where she and Helga go on a road trip... she stumbles out of the bar (and grill) and to the car, spilling her coffee everywhere. ---- Mokichan_8000, 4/23/2007 4:24 PM :Yeah, ioxmo - that was the scene I was talking about, I think. Was that when Miriam sauntered outside and she's like "I slept so good, I feel so rested"? I always thought that scene was suspect.... ---- Greenorbs2, 4/24/2007 12:12 AM :I think the most obvious inference to Miriam's alcoholism is in the ep "Summer Love". She's sitting on the beach house's porch with her blender. How much more upfront can you get? -Jae- ---- ioxmo, 4/25/2007 3:50 AM :Good point, Jae. It also takes her a few seconds to remember her own name! ..or perhaps the time she passes out while at the dinner table. ---- marcosbnpinto, 4/26/2007 2:32 PM :Still, I think she lives in a depressional state - since that´s curious HOW much she changed in "Beeper Queen"( her pasty voice just has gone out, and she proved to be as competent, if not MORE than Big Bob on running his business, eand even, was a good mother for Helga, even if it somewhat warped away - but it was set up nicely again; she woldn´t be able to do that if her alcohol addiction were so deep, so methinks that once given a chance to improve her self-esteem, she doens´t really need that )now, if the reasons that led her into her actual alcoholism "are" related to depression/frustration/feelings of worthlessness or not, that would be a thing that only an actual situation( though an episode or a well constructed fanfiction, too )could tell... ---- Mokichan_8000, 4/26/2007 4:32 PM :Message to Greenorbs2: I just thought that she really enjoyed her smoothies. Poor, naive me :( ---- Greenorbs2, 4/28/2007 2:18 AM :Nah, you're not naive, maybe just an optimist. I think marcosbnpinto has a good point. When Miriam has something to look forward to, she excels at that job and lays off the alcohol. It's only when she has nothing to occupy herself with is when she drinks her smoothies. -Jae- ---- marcosbnpinto, 5/3/2007 4:44 PM : I was talking with Ruth another day exactly about that... Actually, I also think tha there´s a component of frustration on this; see, once was mentioned that she was an Olympic swimmer, and, as I said above, she proved to be as intelligent, competent and dynamic( given the circumstances )! So she´s not a dumb person. But certainly she is underestimated living the kind of life she´s stuck in - it can sound a bit overlapping, too, but, once Olga has such a musical Talent and Helga also has her own Writing Talent as well... from which of their parents those things are related from? From Bob´s? I don´t think so - though I´m not putting him on the role of some dumbstruck rude, noisy guy - but that he´s not likely to those sophisticated things, that´s well known, ain´t that? If I remember well, in "Olga gets engaged" episode( also, the same one where has that little hint about her past athletic skill ), when Olga tells her parents that she was about to marry that Doug LeSham guy, Miriam´s reaction( and I didn´t missed the astonished look on Bob´s face after that )was to say "No, no, no, Olga dear, do not make the same mistake as me!" - well, all said on that pasty( drunken )voice! ... Now, tell me, I´m aware that "it´s just a cartoon"( boomer :P ), and that voice was made over( from Kath Soucie´s Talent, ought to be told indeed ), but, once I got the sum of all those things, I can´t help but think that way... ! ---- SekiraO_O1, 5/19/2007 12:29 PM :Yeah. She is obviously unhappy with the life she's leading. In the "Olga Comes Home" ep. Bob says (about Olga) "She can't just lie around the house mopeing all day!" and Miram replies "Sure she can...I do!" Miriam is hitting the liquer because she's trying to drown her sorrows. ---- marcosbnpinto, 5/19/2007 2:45 PM :" Yeah. She is obviously unhappy with the life she's leading. In the "Olga Comes Home" ep. Bob says (about Olga) "She can't just lie around the house mopeing all day!" and Miriam replies "Sure she can...I do!" Miriam is hitting the liquer because she's trying to drown her sorrows. " That is my point, too... Curiously, like I said before if she has the chance to express herself, all those symptoms go away( as in "Beeper Queen" - frankly, it was GOOD to see hewr get some self-steem... actually, i can't help but like the character, too; sheś not a bad person, sheś just being underrated by Bob( who strangely, ALSO demands form her )! ---- kcheetah999, 5/19/2007 5:42 PM : Agreed. You also see flashes of this in “Road Trip”, but sadly, being a “stable state” show, it wouldn’t last beyond the closing credits. On 5/19/07 8:45 AM, "marcosbnpinto" wrote: New Message on Arnold's Room [ ] Giving Miriam the benefit of the doubt general.msnw-action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=2733.htm Reply mailto:ArnoldsRoom@groups.msn.com?subject=Re%3A%20Giving%20Miriam%20the%20benefit%20of%20the%20doubt Reply to Sender mailto:marcosbnpinto@gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20Giving%20Miriam%20the%20benefit%20of%20the%20doubt Recommend err:bad_redirect Message 14 in Discussion From: marcosbnpinto err:bad_redirect " Yeah. She is obviously unhappy with the life she's leading. In the "Olga Comes Home" ep. Bob says (about Olga) "She can't just lie around the house mopeing all day!" and Miriam replies "Sure she can...I do!" Miriam is hitting the liquer because she's trying to drown her sorrows. " That is my point, too... Curiously, like I said before if she has the chance to express herself, all those symptoms go away( as in "Beeper Queen" - frankly, it was GOOD to see hewr get some self-steem... actually, i can't help but like the character, too; shes not a bad person, shes just being underrated by Bob( who strangely, ALSO demands form her )! View other groups in this category. [ ] To stop getting this e-mail, or change how often it arrives, go to your E-mail Settings [ ] . Need help? If you've forgotten your password, please go to Passport Member Services [ ] . For other questions or feedback, go to our Contact Us [ ] page. If you do not want to receive future e-mail from this MSN group, or if you received this message by mistake, please click the "Remove" link below. On the pre-addressed e-mail message that opens, simply click "Send". Your e-mail address will be deleted from this group's mailing list. Remove my e-mail address from Arnold's Room. mailto:ArnoldsRoom-remove@groups.msn.com